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European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

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European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby amz » Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 09:03

It appears this year elections marked a premiere because it was for the first time when the presence went over 50% over all of EU which is a good sign over the raise of interest about European elections.

The danger of a extremist right-wing powerful group seems to disappear despite some local success of Le Pen and Salvini's parties. Although the Parliament seems more fragmented than ever, the resurgence of a 3rd force (Macron-Verhofstadt centrist-liberal group) and consolidation of Green parties seems to be beneficial long term by finishing with the monopoly of EPP-SD. Even if the sovereign group have a sizeable number of seats, it seems the danger of populism posed by extreme right-wing and some extreme-left groups is minimized at least for next 4 years.

In Romania, the sovereign speech lost heavily, moving PSD(social-democrats, communists party heir) from position of the biggest party of the country since 1989 on 2nd with 22.5 % (after they had 45% in 2016 Parliamentary elections). They also lost on overall in some fiefs where they were dominant from 30 years (Pitesti, Craiova in Valachia). Their allies, ALDE (in fact an even dirtier sovereign speech than PSD) didn't made it over the thresold and they were anyway kicked our of European ALDE (Liberal group). PSD conserved its electorate in rural areas and their voters are usually pensioners and captive voters trough various clientele networks. PSD anti swamp-state/deep state and assault against justice speech coupled with anti-Western propaganda granted them for now a 2nd place but they will probably lose more percentage.

PNL (European Popular Party) is the winner with 27% and it was voted by the average voter. They built the win based on some right-wing somehow moderate groups, a media star in the top of the list and support of President Johannis trough a referendum on justice against PSD's attempts to weaken judicial institutions and anti-corruption laws.

USR PLUS Alliance 2020 (new centrist liberal group for PE along with En Marche and ex ALDE parties as one of the biggest parties of this group) is the moral winner of the elections with 22.4 % coming only 13.000 votes from PSD giant. They almost tripled their percent compared with 2016 and won Bucharest and 16 out of top 20 cities in Romania with a hugely young and urban vote based on anti-corruption and pro-EU speech. Probably with a better organization of vote in Romanian diaspora, they would have come up 2nd.

Other parties who made the thresold are Pro Romania (ex. prim-minister Ponta pro-EU wing of PSD - unaffiliated for now), Popular Movement (ex President Basescu - EPP) and UDMR (Hungarian ethnics party - EPP).

In conclusion, a huge pro-EU vote who threw what was once the biggest party in Romania (PSD) to around 20 % which is usually the percentage of extremist parties. Nothing from modern left parties was in PSD's speech. After these elections the old crooks from PSD are speaking about the right wing deviationism which nearly threw the party out of mainstream. ;) The turnout was 49% compared with 39% at last parliamentary elections. The referendum on justice passed the thresold as well.

Next day after elections, PSD leader and a wanna be Erdogan/Orban was imprisoned.
https://www.euronews.com/2019/05/27/liv ... corruption


How were the elections in your country?

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby Canalina » Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 21:44

In Italy there are three major parties at the moment (but the panorama is changing quite quickly in these last years)

- Lega, 34%. Born in the nineties as "Lega Nord" (League North) with the aim to cut the more productive northern part of the country from the rest of the nation, this party felt to a minimal 4% before a new, rude leader, Matteo Salvini, overturned its destiny. With a mix of strong language, populism and paternalism and some anti-immigrant feelings, Salvini brought the party at the government as second force with 17% of votes and now doubled the percentage in this last vote. The word "Nord" disappeared from the title of the party, the once "terroni" (derogative name to indicate the southern Italy people) now became the most enthusiast voters of Salvini, happily forgetting all his insults. Mysteries of human mind...

- Partito Democratico, 22%. This is the main left party, even if many people (mostly between the populist parties followers) accused it to be by now a right party. It seemed on a sunset boulevard until few months ago, losing votes election after election; but in this last round they inverted the trend re-ascending to a decent 22% circa

- MoVimento 5 Stelle ("Movement Five Stars"), 17%. Populist party by antonomasia. They are by self-nomination "honest", "pure", "transparent". Their creator was a former comedian transformed in an angry demagogue (the cap lock V of MoVimento means Vaffanculo, id est Fuck off). They swore they would have never made alliance with other parties (all dishonest by definition, being them other from MoVimento 5 Stelle) and then they went at the government with the most rude of all the old parties, Lega Nord.
At the recent european vote they had an unexpected (to me) debacle, precipitating from 32% to 17%

As it may appear clear if you had the patience to read all what I wrote, I somehow detest both Lega (mostly its leader) and Movimento 5 Stelle. So I cheer for Partito Democratico; not because I am a real supporter of them but because they seem to me the only semi-decent option at the moment

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 04 Jun 2019, 11:54

Ah well, so Germany ;-)
More and more Germans start to take part in the European elections with now 64,1% casting their vote (+13,3%). That's 37,39 million votes.

The big parties had another disastreous election.
Merkels CDU (Christian Democrats) lost 7,5% and is no at 22,6%. The CSU (Christian "Socials") the Bavarian party together with the CDU, won 1% to have 6,3% (not bad for a party which is only on the ballot in Bavaria) they have 28,9% together. The Union-parties (both together) are centre-right with the CSU being the right wing of this centrist party. Same as the SPD, nobody knows what they still stand for, but they get the votes of those who actually see that Germany is actually not doing that bad.

The big winners are the "Die Grünen" (The Greens) , who nearly doubled up to 20,5%. If they continue to do so, they might have a small chance to even have the chancellor in the next elections. The got 33% with the voters under 30, while only 9% with the voters 70 years or older. The Greens are a left-wing to centre party, with a strong focus on environment topics, and very liberal views of most things. Their voters are normally well educated with 31% having a university degree and an addtional 28% who have at least the Abitur (highest highschool-degree, which is an allowance to go to a university). They are also the strongest party in most cities.

The big losers are the SPD (Socialdemocratic party) at 15,8% (-11,4). If nothing changes this party will be history soon. They have been too long in the once "big coalition" (with the Union-parties) and nobody knows what they actually still stand for. Their head Andrea Nahles is a catastrophy, but has resigned this weekend.

The far-right (on a German spectrum) party AfD grew again, now getting 11% of the votes. They are liberal on economy issues, stright on immigration, maybe comparable with the Republicans in the USA, only minus the religious part. Funwise they get a lot of votes from poor and uneducated people, who somehow think that immigration is a more important topic, than that the AfD actually wants to cut down social supports for them. They are extremely strong in Eastern Germany, where racist sentiments are stronger than in the rest of Germany (and where they funwise have the least numbers of foreigners :D )

Die Linke (the left) a left-wing party has lost some votes (1,9) and stand now at 5,5%. They are a bit populist, a bit communist and they have a problem, that the populist votes are taken from the AfD who is extremly strong in their old strongholds in Eastern Germany.

The FDP, the liberals (or in English probably better Libertarians) gained 2,1% to now have 5,4%, but that's still a very bad result for them. They normally have around 7-10% and had one of their worst elections ever in the Euro elections before this one. They are really liberal on all topics. A quick analysis showed, that apparently their total ignorance of environment issues cost them a bit. But well, it is always economy first for them. Their voters are normally upper class to upper middle class.

As Germany has the biggest population in Europe with 82 million, therefore we can send 96 members of parliament to Strasbourg and so many minor parties will be in parliament. (Before anyone gets the idea, that that's unfair, a German vote still counts only

Most notable the party "Die Partei" (the party) which is a satirical party who actually does quite a good job as they try to make things open in a humurous and satirical way. Notable slogans were "try to reoccupy Europe in a positive way" (they make a lot of Nazi-jokes), "Vote for die Partei, it is very good" and they surprisingly do a lot of parliament work. They gained one seat to now 2 seats with 2,4% (to put in perspective: that's 900k votes, which translate to around 60% of all casted votes from Ireland (around 1,5 mio)).

Other parties in the Euro parliament are:
2 seats: Die Freien Wähler (independent voters) a conservative party with strong roots in a lot of communities in Southern Germany.
1 seats: Die Piraten (left-over from the internet-party movement), Tierschutzpartei (party for the protection of animals), Familie (family rights party, don't know more about them), ÖDP (conservative environment party), Volt (European party).
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby amz » Tue, 04 Jun 2019, 14:29

@Canalina: About Italy, I always wondered how the lira was so stable in the past, the economy quite good but the political scene being a hectic for decades already. There was always a scandal there yet the normal economic life was going on as nothing bad happened. It's a paradox really, other countries may crumble with such politics.

@RugbyLiebe: Die Partei sounds really fun, too bad they don't have a social media in English to follow :))

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 05 Jun 2019, 09:21

amz wrote:@Canalina: About Italy, I always wondered how the lira was so stable in the past, the economy quite good but the political scene being a hectic for decades already. There was always a scandal there yet the normal economic life was going on as nothing bad happened. It's a paradox really, other countries may crumble with such politics.

If I am not wrong, the regional governments were extremely stable in all those years. The Lira wasn't that stable at all though. But Italy profited from it, as exports and production was good due to a weaker Lira.

amz wrote:@RugbyLiebe: Die Partei sounds really fun, too bad they don't have a social media in English to follow :))


They start again to troll.
One of the two members joined the Green fraction in the parliament. He joined them for one reason, the Greens then have the same number of members as the right-wing-populists, which effectively takes away speech time from the right-wingers :lol:
Semsrott announced it like this: "As a member of the "Die Partei"-wing who does politics based on whats necessary, I decided to take the Greens with me." Sonneborn twittered "I welcome the admission, but I stay by myself, until short of the final decision. Now we should have a draw between Greens and Nazis. My vote becomes more and more precious. Smiley!"

Image
(on the left Sonneborn holding a sign which says "Good enough for Europe" and Semsrott with "Better than nothing")
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby vino_93 » Thu, 06 Jun 2019, 08:35

Interesting topic !

So here in France :
- once again, the RN (far right) ended first here with 23.3%. Their score is more or less the same as 5 years ago. What is the most notable is the total change of view of this party on Europe : now they are in favor of EU and of euro; whereas they wanted to leave both recently (for example during the last presidential election). Of course not as it is working right now. They still look to be the only one able to speak to poor rural area & unqualified youths. You have to notice they did a good job by promotting Jordan Bardella, a young man from poor suburbs of Paris which didn't do great studies - and who did a very good job during the campaign. From this results a good improvment in Paris suburbs, a place they never really received to establish strongly.
So let's see now if they will start working in Strasbourg & Bruxelles or just take money and do nothing.

- in second place, but very close to RN with 22.4%, is LREM - Macron's party. If they didn't win the race, it can be seen as another Victory for Macron. After more than 2 years of ruling the country, some protests, and a massiv implosion of french politic system, they remain high. That was not done from the beginning. Now Macron can focus on the end of his mandate quite reassured - he seduced a strong base. More important, this very good result will change things in european parliament, with ALDE being now a strong group.

- in third place, EELV with 13.4%. That was unexpected to see them as high after 10 years of difficult time for them, with poor leaders. Now it seems they found a new good organization, and take advantage of ecologic awareness. Next year will be municipal élections, and they will have a lot of power as they did huge score in big cities. Now it's up to them not to destroyed what they achieved. In 2009 they did 16.3% but didn't receive to use it at their own.

- Fourth, and that's a huuuuuge surprise, LR ("Les Républicains"), with only 8.5%. That's the worst result for them in an election. Their party seems to be lost, cutting by LREM & RN. This party (with various name) is at the peak since the WW2 (related to De Gaulle). Now it's time to trouble, and they might loose many things next year too. They don't know where to go. The righter they go, the more they lose their electors. But they can hardly closing to the center, as they lost their members to LREM. Hard time for them to come. Their leader Laurent Wauquiez resigned after the elections.
And from an european view, their poor performance is one of the reasons of the weakening of EPP.

- Fivth, LFI (far left) with 6.3%. Huge disappointment for them. They never were strong in european elections, but Mélenchon was close to go to the second round of presidential elections. But since two years they never received to be seen as a real alternative and opposition force. They are stuck in the middle of nowhere, with poor performances of Mélenchon and nobody else able to take the lead.

- Sixth and last with seats, the PS (left) with 6.2%. Of course, they lost many votes from last EU elections. But considering the hard time they knew from last presidential election, that's quite correct. Their story is similar to LR, but they lost everything during the last presidential elections. They were penalized by another left list, led by Benoît Hamon (former PS candidate in 2017), which did 3.3%. That's a pity for them they didn't go together, as they basically propose the same things. A merger of both would have put them in a better place. At least, it seems it killed Génération.s from Hamon, so …
It has to be noticed that EELV-PS-(Génération.s) could stand together for national elections, as they already did in the past. If they received to do it, they could rule major cities next year; and maybe the whole country in 2022. But for the first time, the power seems to be in EELV hands, not anymore in PS. So let's see …

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 06 Jun 2019, 09:20

Hello, Spain calling. These are the results of the Spanish vote...

- PSOE - 32.8%. Up from 23% in 2014. Another precious win by the ruling party, basically becoming the last bastion of traditional socialdemocracy in Europe. Their success in general elections just a month before probably helped them. There are three reasons for this. First of all, they are the single big party that has shown interest to discuss and engage on a dialogue on the biggest topics and people is increasingly tired of entrenched politics. Then you must consider the rise of far right (VOX). And finally internal fights in Podemos have made lots of traditional voters to return back home.

- PP- 20.1%. Down from 26.1% in 2014. This is its worst result ever. Pablo Casado's image is antipathetic to many voters even though he won primaries (Soraya Sáenz de Santamaría was defeated, but she clearly had a bigger approval rate outside PP and could play the gender card) and he made little effort to regain their confidence by going further down the right in a crazy race against Ciudadanos and VOX. Once he failed at General Elections he tried to return to the center but it was too late. Traditional right is in intensive care.

- Ciudadanos - 12.2%. Up from 3.2% in 2014. Good result, bad omens. They grow but not as much as they would have liked. They seem to have reached their ceiling. The bet on Europe was big, with a decent bunch of people sent to the European Parliament, but their message was hidden behind the fact their party got mixed in the right-wing battle, their lack of reluctance to pact with VOX...

- Podemos - 10%. Up from 8% in 2014 but at that time IU (Communists) got an additional 10%. Implosion. Spanish left wing loves a good schism and they keep that tradition. Pablo Iglesias has clearly lost of his mojo, his old friends are fleeing the ship and their only chance of survival is being part of next Spanish government. But it doesn't look well for the future.

- VOX - 6.2%. Up from 1.5% in 2014. As horrified as I am with their rise, one must not exaggerate. This was a bad result for them, just as it was a bad result in General Elections. They receive way more coverage than they deserve and this proves they were overrepresented. They probably inherited part of the protest vote that went to Podemos back in 2014, because I don't think right wing voters actually increased compared to last time (add their %).

- Others. Current issues with Carles Puigdement being denied access to European Parliament shouldn't mislead. This was a horrible result for him, as Catalan right keeps sinking with ERC (left) inheriting power.

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby Thomas » Thu, 06 Jun 2019, 10:10

In the UK there were 2 clear Big Winners which shows how polarised the UK is at present:

Brexit Party won 29 Seats the largest party in Europe? took 31.6% of the vote at the expense of UKIP and the governing conservative party which is in free fall.

Liberal Democrats with 16 Seats they only true remain party in the UK with 20.3% of the vote.

Labour lost 10 seats and their ambivalence cost them dearly 14.1%

Greens won 4 and now have 7 MEPs their campaign was solid but still a small group. 12.09%

Conservative lost 15 seats only 9.9 % of the vote - Total free fall and self destruction.

Scottish National Party won 4 seat and 3.6 % of the vote.

In the UK the remain side is fractured too many competing groups with different messages hence why they couldn't contain the Brexit party. Liberal Democrats are on the come back after years in the wilderness and remain true to their message the other party who claim to be remain at one point or another dabble with Brexit and respect the referendum result and hesitated with their message as a result remains fractured.

Conservative have been at each other for decades, this referendum put all the dirty laundry in the open. if there is an election they will be wiped. No BREXIT Party MP has ever won at a general election they may win today in a By-Election after the resignation of a local MP.

Brexit Party message is rubbish but their message is consistent hence why they won.

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby Canalina » Fri, 12 Jul 2019, 20:57

In Italy just emerged a tape, an audio stolen from the meeting in October 2018 between three collaborators/exponents of Lega, currently the main italian party, and (apparently) three persons from the russian government. It happened during the Moscow voyage of Salvini, Lega's absolute leader.
The group of six talks about a giant sell of gas from Russia to Italy.
"May we have a 4% discount? -the italians ask according to the transcription of the audio- European elections are near and we need money for our election campaign". Then they add more or less: we will be good friends of Russia, so it is convenient to you too if we won. They use not so direct words but the sense is that.
"We could offer you a 6% discount", the russians reply.
"Four percent is enough for us -the italians say- We just want to fund the election campaign; if you want to save some extra money it's ok for us, but we just would a 4%"

The meaning of the dialog seems that italians are asking to fund Lega's electoral campaign with public italian money, shadowy extracted from an inflated purchase of russian gas; and that the russians are trying to obtain some extra-money for them too.
Basically six corrupted people, managing business for italian government and russian government.

The dialog is making great rumor in Italy, but I think it will not have big effects at the next elections: Lega's fans will keep voting Salvini anyway, they just don't care about these things

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby Canalina » Sat, 13 Jul 2019, 10:40

Audio is not a fake. Savoini, Salvini's collaborator talking in the audio, said in these days: "I don't know if its my voice, and I don't remember that meeting". In front of a fake audio you don't say "I'm not sure... I don't remember...", you just say: "that's not me! This is a fake!". Of course Savoini (surname similar to Salvini, may be confusing for a stranger reader) knows very well that that is his voice and remembers very well that meeting. Today an other of the italian participants admitted clearly that he was at the meeting, but that the oil transaction hadn't success.

CIA... with CIA you may explain all, easy shortcut. Maybe the audio was recorded by CIA, it's likely, but that's not the point; point is that there were six delegates of italian and russian governments, all easy ready to commit an act of corruption

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby Canalina » Sun, 14 Jul 2019, 18:21

If that "strange coincidence" is an ironic way to say that right wing people are more prone to take some shortcut in the laws, I agree.
If it's a way to foreshadow some conspiracy, well, it's boring...
In Italy we are already full of people explaining every unpleasant situation with a conspiracy theory. "By a strange coincidence" they are almost all right wingers...

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby Canalina » Sun, 14 Jul 2019, 20:19

Listening/spying is a thing (not good, I agree), creating fake tapes is a different thing.
At least one person present at that meeting between three italians and three russians confirmed it. The recording and publication of the tape could be (probably is) a CIA move, but nobody here thinks it is a fake; the attempt of corruption is blatant and -contrary to my expectations- it seems it is pushing italian government in a difficult situation

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby Canalina » Mon, 15 Jul 2019, 19:04

Maybe some politicians in the west are not punished for their crimes thanks to their political position, I don't know (do you know? Or do you just like to imagine it? :) ), but an act of corruption can't be hided saying "everyone does the same thing, but some are discovered and some are covered". It's a bit childish: "teacher, you can't punish just me! Also my classmate here did the same thing!". I think you have first to pay for your crime, then you may denounce the (supposed) crimes of other people. Also the Italian government's politicians are following the same tactic: while Salvini is just saying that it is all ridiculous and that he has not to defend himself, his allied Di Maio affirmed "we want an inquiry, but an inquiry about the financing of all the parties!". Just a move to dilute the problem...

About the "ukrainian bastard murder", how do you explain that? If we are a sort of obeying US colony why we condemned that anti-Russian fighter? If -at the opposite- the court had absolved it, wouldn't have you denounced that move as a proof of our subordination to US?

About the last article, well, there's a bit of confusion I think. The article is from "Il Manifesto", an old and oble newspaper but clearly oriented toward a "far left" vision of the world, a vision where US are evil masters and Italy a land of poor servants (all about the Manifesto journalist, of course).
The south stream was boycotted not due to anti-russian reasons but due to ecological reasons; and the political party most against that pipeline project was Movimento 5 Stelle, that at least until few time ago was clearly and openly pro-Russia and pro-Putin. Now, between the anger of great part of their followers accusing them of incoherence, Movimento 5 Stelle decided that for economical reasons that pipeline project could go ahead; the other side of the government, Salvini's Lega, was always fully favorable to the pipeline project. So at least in this matter I can't see any subordination to US

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 17 Jul 2019, 06:55

Sonneborn from Die Partei at its best in the European parliament yesterday.



Lost in translation is that von der Leyen name is a homophon to German "Laie" which means layman or amateur.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby amz » Wed, 17 Jul 2019, 12:47

Vova12 wrote:#Salvini: "I received some death threats from members of the Ukrainian far right so I signaled them to the police which found a missile and other weapons during yesterday's operation".

https://twitter.com/Russ_Warrior/status ... 9491186688

:shock:


@Vova, this is somehow a "private" discussion between people affected by EU politics. You live in a big Federation which is not affected by EU and is much stronger anyway so do you mind if you spare us of your nonsense and gtfo ? We aren't interested, whatever you're selling

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby amz » Wed, 17 Jul 2019, 12:59

About Die Partei, I reckon I like them although I don't know how effective they are on long term and I do not agree with all their stances.

As for European negotiations, it ended in a compromise as always but we did see some shifts in power, for example new liberal group RENEW it's advocating for a direct elections of some position which can only be good.

I don't like much the new lineup of EU tbh.

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 17 Jul 2019, 15:09

amz wrote:As for European negotiations, it ended in a compromise as always but we did see some shifts in power, for example new liberal group RENEW it's advocating for a direct elections of some position which can only be good.


Not to sure what to make about RENEW. The German party FDP in there is the worst neo-liberal party you can get in our country. Basically a copy of the bullshit economy policies, that ruined the middle class in the US in the last decades, this goes as far as close-to-full privatization of health and public services, which even the last idiot should have realized by now, that this only drives up costs for everyone. When they are in power, they basically do their lobby jobs for their sponsors. Interesting in some other parts though, but unvoteable for me.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby 4N » Wed, 17 Jul 2019, 22:42

RugbyLiebe wrote:Lost in translation is that von der Leyen name is a homophon to German "Laie" which means layman or amateur.


Also a town on the North Shore of Oahu. 8-)

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby NedRugby » Wed, 17 Jul 2019, 22:56

I watched von der Leyen's speech and thought she came across really well. I think she had to perform well because it was by no means certain beforehand that she would be voted in. Still, it's one thing to sound good, we'll have to wait and see what the performance is like.

Her name looks Dutch, just change "von" to "van".

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 18 Jul 2019, 08:32

NedRugby wrote:I watched von der Leyen's speech and thought she came across really well. I think she had to perform well because it was by no means certain beforehand that she would be voted in. Still, it's one thing to sound good, we'll have to wait and see what the performance is like.

Her name looks Dutch, just change "von" to "van".


Well she made sure, that the German military is not going anywhere (although her pre-predecessor zu Guttenburg was even more incompentent) and pumped millions in the consultant business (off course just an "unlucky" coincidence, that her son is a partner in one of the companies who profited the most). She was basically getting into serious trouble over this.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby rey200 » Fri, 19 Jul 2019, 17:00

Hahaha Rugbyliebe, I see we have similar views on that kind of stuff. But Guttenberg was even worse, well, he is blue blooded from birth, seems that aristocracy doesn't fare well for the Bundesverteidigungsministerium ^^
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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 22 Jul 2019, 08:44

rey200 wrote:Hahaha Rugbyliebe, I see we have similar views on that kind of stuff. But Guttenberg was even worse, well, he is blue blooded from birth, seems that aristocracy doesn't fare well for the Bundesverteidigungsministerium ^^


If you see a real aristocratic politician run. Best thing is, how they claim to have run a successful business, when they only administered their family's wealth like Guttenberg. Only the French found the right solution at the right time for this kind of problem.

Ah well, the EU has made the mistake to grow to fast before there was a real social agenda. On the other hand, it was good to unite Europe again after the iron curtain, and I wouldn't want to miss Poland, the Czech Republic, Romania, Hungary etc.
Actually a good thing that the British left, but not sure if i.e. Poland will finally have real European continent thoughts and not what the USA wants.
Economywise the ongoing sanctions of Russia and Iran are a joke from a European continental perspective. Nothing to be gained apart from higher costs.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby Canalina » Mon, 22 Jul 2019, 20:14

In this old video, Vova during his previous job as interpreter. Unfortunately the two nurses didn't reach him and now he is free and elaborating four conspiracy theories per day. In all of these theories the westerns are so so evil! But Putin, naked on a white horse whit a glowing sword, will defeat them!


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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby Canalina » Mon, 22 Jul 2019, 21:27

Germany has a growth rate worst than Poland, Russia, Slovakia, Georgia and Czech Republic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_E ... rowth_rate

Italy lost 0.15 % between 2018 and 2019 according to our national statistic institute
https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2019/ ... 218534960/

Sardinia lost 0.54 %, other regions Basilicata and Molise lost respectively 0.60 % and 0.74 % of their population in last year
http://www.lanuovasardegna.it/regione/2 ... 1.17774909

Are Germany and Italy deprived of their population by the western predators, id est by themselves? Are Sardinia and Basilicata robbed by the cruel northern regions of Italy? Yes, many people would answer. Just today I've read the assertion of someone (I don't remember who) saying that Italy was created apparently united but with the project to have a south serving the north.
World is full of possible conspiracies: find a problem and just say that someone, a powerful someone, appositely created it for his interests. It's easy, it's pleasurable, it fills the belly

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Re: European Elections 2019 and future of Europe

Postby Canalina » Tue, 23 Jul 2019, 07:31

According to this (first result found on google) there's no difference between birth rate in West and East Europe. So I think the supposed western values don't matter

https://www.indexmundi.com/map/?v=25&r=eu&l=en

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