Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

New Japanese pro league

Posts: 1477
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

New Japanese pro league

Postby Tobar » Sun, 28 Jul 2019, 17:10

Some info on the new Japanese pro league that will replace Top League from our friend Hinato (in French)

https://twitter.com/akimotohinato/statu ... 61120?s=21

User avatar
Posts: 2961
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: Asian 5 Nations & Asian rugby discussion

Postby 4N » Sun, 28 Jul 2019, 17:14

Tobar wrote:Some info on the new Japanese pro league that will replace Top League from our friend Hinato (in French)

https://twitter.com/akimotohinato/statu ... 61120?s=21


They will have a team in Sapporo. Cool. There’s never been pro rugby in Hokkaido.

Posts: 310
Joined: Sat, 26 Apr 2014, 07:43
National Flag:
JapanJapan

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Hinato » Sun, 28 Jul 2019, 18:13

Une petite idée de ce que cela pourrait donner:

Sapporo => Sapporo + ?
Kamaishi => Kamaishi Seawaves
Kumagaya => Kumagaya Wild Knights (Panasonic Wild Knights)
Tokyo => Sunwolves
Yokohama => Yokohama Sungoliath (Suntory Sungoliath)
Shizuoka => Iwata Jubilo (Yamaha Jubilo)
Toyota City => Toyota Verblitz
Osaka/Higashi-Osaka => Osaka Liners (Kintetsu Liners)
Kobe => Kobe Steelers (Kobelco Steelers)
Fukuoka => Fukuoka Red Sparks (Coca-Cola Red Sparks)
Oita => Oita + ?
Kumamoto => Kumamoto + ?

Posts: 1477
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Tobar » Sun, 28 Jul 2019, 18:53

Did someone take my comment and make its own thread? Interesting

User avatar
Posts: 2961
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby 4N » Sun, 28 Jul 2019, 19:23

I split it off since I would have started a new topic about it.

User avatar
Posts: 2961
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby 4N » Sun, 28 Jul 2019, 19:27

Hinato wrote:Une petite idée de ce que cela pourrait donner:

Sapporo => Sapporo + ?
Kamaishi => Kamaishi Seawaves
Kumagaya => Kumagaya Wild Knights (Panasonic Wild Knights)
Tokyo => Sunwolves
Yokohama => Yokohama Sungoliath (Suntory Sungoliath)
Shizuoka => Iwata Jubilo (Yamaha Jubilo)
Toyota City => Toyota Verblitz
Osaka/Higashi-Osaka => Osaka Liners (Kintetsu Liners)
Kobe => Kobe Steelers (Kobelco Steelers)
Fukuoka => Fukuoka Red Sparks (Coca-Cola Red Sparks)
Oita => Oita + ?
Kumamoto => Kumamoto + ?


It sounds like they will all play in the RWC venues as well? I wonder what sort of crowds some of the new cities would get.

Sapporo should be called the Brewers.

Posts: 1477
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Tobar » Sun, 28 Jul 2019, 20:58

Yes they want to play in all the venues to capitalize off of the RWC (or at least the same cities).

It’s good to see that they actually have some sort of plan post-RWC. I was afraid that this would be a huge missed opportunity.

Posts: 1891
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 28 Jul 2019, 23:44

Not sure that this is smart. You're basically ending 16 years of work done with the Top League. The Top League should just be fully professional.

Posts: 468
Joined: Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 02:19
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Blurandski » Sun, 28 Jul 2019, 23:52

TheStroBro wrote:Not sure that this is smart. You're basically ending 16 years of work done with the Top League. The Top League should just be fully professional.



The issue is how to do it. By the sounds of it this new project has support from lots of TL (and the league below) sides, who'll transition sideways into the new Pro League, which seems sensible. Those companies who want to go professional stand a good chance of being so in this new league, while those stuck in their old ways still have the TL.

Posts: 1477
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Tobar » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 00:39

The TL will be no more, though it seems like they’re making a new league for the TL teams to continue playing in.

I get the impression that the TL was not really worth saving. Bloated contracts, company employees as players and random mix of kiwis. It seems like the culture around it really wasn’t about advancing professionalism in Japan so it’s best to make a clean cut and move forward. As Blu said, some teams are on board and others aren’t.

Posts: 5882
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby victorsra » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 03:48

This means no Japanese teams in GRR?
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 5562
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 06:05

Link article says season would run September to February. GGR starts in March.

Posts: 310
Joined: Sat, 26 Apr 2014, 07:43
National Flag:
JapanJapan

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Hinato » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 07:32

TheStroBro wrote:Not sure that this is smart. You're basically ending 16 years of work done with the Top League. The Top League should just be fully professional.

Impossible. La moitié des clubs de Top League ne veulent pas passer au professionnalisme. Le rugby japonais est obligé de passer par une ligue fermée comme le football japonais l'a fait avec la création de la J-League (qui a désormais 3 divisions). La Top League deviendra le championnat d'élite amateur/semi-pro de rugby nippon comme la JFL (4ème division) dans le football japonais.

Posts: 592
Joined: Mon, 12 May 2014, 21:05
National Flag:
IrelandIreland

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby dropkick » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 08:30

Good news for Japanese rugby.

If they're going fully professional will they easily find the money or will they have to bring in less big name
signings as they pay Japanese players more?
Last edited by dropkick on Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 12:13, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 310
Joined: Sat, 26 Apr 2014, 07:43
National Flag:
JapanJapan

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Hinato » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 11:24

Précision sur cette future ligue baptisée "Origin 12":
- les clubs auront un sponsor majeur (entreprise)
- les clubs auront un stade local
- coopération du club avec la ville locale
- les clubs auront un système de formation pour les jeunes générations

A noter qu'un tournoi préparatoire (6 à 10 équipes) aura lieu après la fin des Jeux Paralympiques de Tokyo 2020 pour préparer la future ligue professionnelle dont la première saison débutera en septembre 2021.

Quant à la Top League (sous un autre nom), elle deviendra le championnat d'élite amateur/semi-pro de rugby nippon (2ème division à partir de 2021) comme la JFL (4ème division) dans le football japonais.

Posts: 1477
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Tobar » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 13:19

What is the plan to potentially join The Rugby Championship? Does the JRFU still want to do this? I read elsewhere that the national team will be active from July to November which is perfect for TRC, but this league runs from September to January so there is a clear overlap.

Posts: 310
Joined: Sat, 26 Apr 2014, 07:43
National Flag:
JapanJapan

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Hinato » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 21:19

"Origin 12" dernières infos:
- tournoi préparatoire (6 à 10 équipes) en 2020
- Des clubs professionnels seront crées dans les villes de Sapporo, Oita et Kumamoto
- la ligue complétée (12 équipes au total) par les Sunwolves et les clubs de Top League qui passeront professionnels

Posts: 576
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Edgar » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 21:45

According to the following article, which includes Hinato's Twitter image, the Sunwolves could be one of the 12 teams included in the proposed Japanese pro league. It says the competition would begin in 2021 and run from September to January. Eight of the 20 Top League clubs have so far voted in favor of the concept. The Top League itself would become a semi-professional competition exclusive to Japanese players. So presumably the foreign legions would have to be resettled among the teams involved in the new league. https://actu.fr/societe/le-japon-va-bie ... ji4NWY4b_w

Hinato's previous post states there will be a preparatory tournament next year involving six to ten teams. :thumbup:

Posts: 1891
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 22:11

Hinato wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:Not sure that this is smart. You're basically ending 16 years of work done with the Top League. The Top League should just be fully professional.

Impossible. La moitié des clubs de Top League ne veulent pas passer au professionnalisme. Le rugby japonais est obligé de passer par une ligue fermée comme le football japonais l'a fait avec la création de la J-League (qui a désormais 3 divisions). La Top League deviendra le championnat d'élite amateur/semi-pro de rugby nippon comme la JFL (4ème division) dans le football japonais.
m
Pourquoi pas? None of that is impossible. Just make it happen at JRFU level. There is no reason to start over, because that is what you will do should they continue along that path. In English if you please.
Last edited by TheStroBro on Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 22:21, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 1477
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Tobar » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 22:17

It's not starting over because established clubs are leaving the Top League to form this new league. There are owners who don't want to professionalize, you can't just wave a wand and say "you are professional." And if Hinato isn't exaggerating and half the league really has no interest in professionalizing then that's pretty damn close to impossible.

Posts: 1891
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 22:25

I don't read what he's writing that clearly, as I'm not putting it in Google translate.

User avatar
Posts: 2961
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby 4N » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 22:31

I think the best thing about this will be replacing corporate names with city names and breaking into new markets.

Posts: 468
Joined: Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 02:19
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Blurandski » Tue, 30 Jul 2019, 00:17

TheStroBro wrote:
Hinato wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:Not sure that this is smart. You're basically ending 16 years of work done with the Top League. The Top League should just be fully professional.

Impossible. La moitié des clubs de Top League ne veulent pas passer au professionnalisme. Le rugby japonais est obligé de passer par une ligue fermée comme le football japonais l'a fait avec la création de la J-League (qui a désormais 3 divisions). La Top League deviendra le championnat d'élite amateur/semi-pro de rugby nippon comme la JFL (4ème division) dans le football japonais.
m
Pourquoi pas? None of that is impossible. Just make it happen at JRFU level. There is no reason to start over, because that is what you will do should they continue along that path. In English if you please.


The English translation:

"Impossible. Half of the clubs in the Top League don't want to move to professionalism. Japanese rugby is forced to go through a closed league as Japanese football did with the creation of the J-League (which now has 3 divisions). The Top League will become the elite amateur/semi-pro Japanese rugby championship like the JFL (4th division) in Japanese football."

If lots of the Top League doesn't want to become properly professional then the best thing is to break away. The process is pretty similar to the formation of MLR in terms of the willing professionalise.

Posts: 1891
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 30 Jul 2019, 01:09

Then I guess I should rephrase what I'm asking. Since JRFU has a full structure that also has professional rugby, it's kind of weird to say the Top League is only Semi-Pro because they pay All Blacks, Wallabies, Springboks, a metric fuck ton of money to come over and play.

Why not keep the branding of the Top League with the clubs that want to fully professionalize and move the clubs that don't want to down to the semi-pro division?

Posts: 5562
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 30 Jul 2019, 06:02

If teams change their names to reflect their location then rebranding the whole league makes 100% sense. When soccer restructured itself down here over a decade ago some of the clubs from the old soccer league rebranded to coincide with the revamping of the new competition. Only one club kept their original name because it was the most well known club in the country at the time.

Next

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests